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Post by magepowers on Aug 31, 2017 11:22:18 GMT 2
So, I know that this topic about the "insane difficulty" on Pillar Golem is brought up a lot. I've also heard that many people quit at this point because the boss is too frustrating to complete. People say that connection issues are a huge factor to not being able to handle this boss. I've decided that I need to ask the community about their thoughts about this. Since I am now the official updater of HM RPG if you did not hear the news, I feel like i can appropriately address this issue. I will also be asking the Korean community as well, and see if there is a general consensus on whether or not something will happen to Pillar Golem. I would like to hear people's serious opinion about Pillar Golem and how it affects the game as a whole.
Some questions that I have for people are:
1. Does the spike in difficulty make sense because of how different the 255+ zone is from the rest of the game?
2. Does Pillar Golem kill the enjoyment of casual players?
3. Does clearing Pillar Golem feel rewarding for you? Why or why not?
Those are just some stuff that I would like everyone to answer if possible. Please also include some of your own insights about this too beyond the questions that I have asked. Thank you for your cooperation in making HM RPG a better game.
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Post by darklinkds on Aug 31, 2017 12:03:18 GMT 2
1: It's indeed a spike but if you have done some of the bosses at the arena than it's not a huge adaption, it's just a bit more diffcult of a boss.
2: I think it depends, because some players like to play solo but at this point in the game it's all teamplay, which is fine I think. Personally, it didn't kill the fun for me because I had a group that was at the same point in the game where they all needed 4 thunder rocks. But then again I can understand if you're alone at this point in the game it may be difficult to find players that have either done him and want to help or find players at that point in the game.
3: It's really rewarding!
Pillar's difficulty lies in the 1st stone wave, the other skills he uses are quite easy. Personally it would be okay it if his other skills were more of a challenge and his stone wave to be a bit more forgiving.
My overal opinion is that he doesn't really need changing.
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Post by DeezNutz on Aug 31, 2017 13:10:19 GMT 2
1: the spike is actually kinda rough in comparison of other raids but its my opinion the spike is needed pillar actually prepares you for the later raids so i think yes it is needed.
2: yes he does i myself have stopped at pillar multiple times cause he really is impossible to solo if you are playing mostly solo but at this point hm rpg isnt supposed to be soloed anymore.
3: he is rewarding as fuck(sry) but after i killed pillar for the first time it has been as if a "thunder rock" has fallen of my chest.
overall i think pillar is quite ok as dark already said the real difficulty lies in the stone wave and i would suggest the same as him lower the difficulty from stone wave and increase the rest maybe not rolling stones cause they are quite random aswell exspecially spawning wise but at the end of the day pillar isnt the worst boss in hm rpg he is a challange and he is satisfying which it actually is about.
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Post by DeezNutz on Aug 31, 2017 15:11:02 GMT 2
the real problem for me at stonewave is that he keeps attacking maybe you could make the wave a channeling spell so he stopps attacking while it is going the autos are distracting as hell
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Post by DaMonkMan on Sept 1, 2017 20:33:31 GMT 2
I have pretty much quit because of pillar. A lot of my fun was getting constantly stronger and being able to solo zones eventually. While I would be more than willing to do group content for axe and Zeus and beyond, the randomness and brutal nature of pillar doesn't feel challenging, it feels cheap. You get a pattern that is unavoidable for you, or you have any kind of delay due to players being on opposite ends of the world, one player is fucked. Plus in the game if one player dies it's over makes it frustrating to everybody if one person keeps dying to that mechanic. I hear there is a method of cheesing it with a particular group comp but that doesn't make it okay.
So 1. Yes the spike of difficulty makes sense but a sense of difficulty that can be overcome through gear or skill instead of praying for a good pattern where nobody lags or using a cheese strat.
2. Enjoyment = dead after wasting 3 hours getting no kills with a couple groups. I haven't touched the game in a month or two now.
3. Does it feel rewarding? Maybe if I then didn't have to repeat the thing a bunch more times and still have to go back and farm a bunch of int.
Stampede mechanics are just not fun, if I wanted to dodge instant kill bullets I would go play Touhou so I can blame myself if I die and not the lag, character turn delay or bullshit unavoidable pattern I got.
Sorry if this came off harsh but I did have a lot of fun with hisame earlier, had like three legendary son my first character, my Mirana and didn't save any replays cause I didn't know it mattered. Went back and made a dryad who is now blocked at pillar and have just lost interest. I guess it's not technically true since I can farm int since I don't thing I have all pre pillar items maxed but still wouldn't mean much for pillar.
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Post by Agent.J on Sept 1, 2017 20:47:31 GMT 2
1. The spike doesn't make sense, because Pitlord boss is also good as an introduction to 255+ area: his phase is quite easy and obvoius, but he is quite tough and deals enough damage to wipe if you don't damage him enough and/or don't split his damage among the party (so Pitlord is like the old Zeus boss - tough but pretty straightforward). Pillar just becomes the second "introductory" boss; we don't need two of those.
2. I think yes, but mostly because you need to find someone to help you learn him, not because of the difficulty of this famous stone phase (yes, it makes some people exit the game, but they wouldn't get far anyway). Those who completed him usually don't want to spend their time on your deaths, and those who didn't complete him will not want to fail when they survived and you died. I think it's a perfect boss, this stone phase will appear again and again throughout the game in different variations (so it's good to learn it early), but I think Pillar is not a team boss, he's a solo boss by his nature - his purpose is to teach the player how to deal with this stone phase, and other players don't help you in any sense, they just hinder you and slow you down.
3. He is quite rewarding, more than many other bosses even past him, because you learn something from him.
What I want to suggest is to make Pillar Golem soloable - reduce his attack damage and health enough, but leave other phases (even stone wave) as they are. He is good for learning and preparing to a harder stage of the game, but there is no need for him to be a party boss - it creates more obstructions for players, but don't teach them anything.
Also please make it more clear that Thunder Rock drops on arena. All the game before and after this moment the player don't need to get any items via arena (they are completely optional), so it's a bit hard to find out that you must go to arena for them. Saying about it in Thunder Dagger upgrade recipes would be good.
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Post by Agent.J on Sept 1, 2017 21:00:20 GMT 2
Ah sorry, I played a long time ago to forget that 255+ starts from Zeus, but as I said, Pitlord is like an old Zeus, and for an introduction to party bosses we even have Axe now, so Pillar Golem is still not needed for this. Also if new Axe and Zeus and so on have phases designed for a party, Pillar Golem's phases are not for party - in fact, they are easier in solo, and the only thing that prevents you from killing him solo (with most classes and without rare equipment) is his attack damage/toughness.
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Post by Gooeypillows on Sept 1, 2017 23:41:18 GMT 2
I do NOT think the issues are with if its rewarding or appropriate for following difficulty.
I think the most important thing about pillar golem is that if you or your partner have any serious ping, it stops being skill and just becomes frustrating. Personally, I am usually playing with people from Europe while in US West. This causes some issues that one or both of us will have too much ping to be enjoyable.
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Post by Int on Sept 3, 2017 15:24:19 GMT 2
I found this boss doable using us east bots playing with another us east player. however this boss was completely impossible for me on EU bots because of the 120+ ping issues.
I also think it's pretty unfair how some hero's have such an easy time beating this boss being able to take multiple rocks without it mattering. (dragon, soulkeeper, alch, vision master, etc)
The changes i would most like to see:
1) make the boss equally difficult for everyone(no longer let damage reduction or invulnerability work against rocks) but make the items it drop a huge boost, but not a requirement, something like a huge sum of int(i remember needing around 6000int to even start Zeus) or a legendary item or much better unique gear that can be upgraded straight into pitgear while also being the same strength as +0 pitgear.
however any of these changes are going to make people skip it way more than if it was a requirement almost regardless of what you give them on success.
OR
2) make the boss slightly easier in general while making rocks on the first 2 waves instakill you no matter what. This would both help people playing on far away servers most of the time and make it so a few classes don't get a freepass barely learning any of the mechanics required. This would also make it so less people would get frustrated and quit hmrpg forever.
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Post by weeperz on Sept 5, 2017 19:19:58 GMT 2
the real problem for me at stonewave is that he keeps attacking maybe you could make the wave a channeling spell so he stopps attacking while it is going the autos are distracting as hell The fact is that something with same size and model is flying at you (at constant rate) while you are trying to dodge stuff that deal ~60-80% of your hp makes it kinda most annoying raid there is. not many raid bosses have a visual auto attacks which makes their "waves" more bearable. In my opinion there is 2 ways to fix it, 1. make his autoattacks "invisible" aka change the projectile model to nothing / something else than a same model. 2. as Deeznuts said make it a "channel" 1st option is better for me since it has less risks like the rolling stone having it "bug invu". and as a respond to mages inqueries 1. Yes and no, its a difficulty increase for new players it might take them atleast 4hours to get 1st kill. Mainly it makes you learn the patterns and hero movement, i dont think its too hard compared to later stuff. (265+)
2. Propably yes, i dont know how many players are up to waiting weeks to get the pillar group just to ragequit after 30minutes of fails.
3. I would say it needs a small correction to it, nothing much but fixing the autoattacks during wave already does alot.
4. 300+ Please  |
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Post by Shivor on Sept 14, 2017 14:10:40 GMT 2
In my opinion it's not about pillar golem but bullet hell mechanics in general, that's why people don't realy have a problem with running axe.
Just my opinion as to the problems with bullet hell mechanics:
1. Way too overused across the arena bosses.
2. Discourages party play, I personally just ran it with 2 people because it's less of a chance for a player to get fucked over by the random bullet hell.
3. Just not an interesting mechanic though that's entirely up to personal taste.
I see a lot of people just skipping the bullet hell bosses in general and the reason why you'd see people quit at pillar golem is because it's not a bullet hell boss you can skip.
My proposal is to just replace the bullet hell mechanics with other mechanics.
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Post by rodnalle on Sept 26, 2017 22:55:27 GMT 2
i think it should be nerfed/changed couse if you have high ping its impossible to do without someone tanking it for you.
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Post by Rose on Feb 20, 2018 20:16:06 GMT 2
At this point in doing pilar, I have terrible dodging skills and tempted to offer real $$ for help lol
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Post by trusty on Oct 30, 2018 18:54:21 GMT 2
I think there should be an option to farm out int for the thunder rock as well. That way people can choose. I also think this should equate to a shitton of int like 1 hour+ farming necro for one thunder rock.
Keep the challenge for those who want it and give a way to skip it for those who cannot complete it.
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Post by Allen1134 on Apr 18, 2020 8:58:37 GMT 2
I think there should be an option to farm out int for the thunder rock as well. That way people can choose. I also think this should equate to a shitton of int like 1 hour+ farming necro for one thunder rock. Keep the challenge for those who want it and give a way to skip it for those who cannot complete it. This is such a good idea. |
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